Fuck.

those ultras are becoming bigger than the game and the FIGC. banning them and punishing them wont solve anything at all, if anything it will piss them off even more. FIGC should work and try to please those ultras. because honestly after seeing what happened today, those people are the ones in control. im not condoning there actions, but they're not 5 years old kids, its not only a game to them. so the best solution is to work with them for a a better solution. banning them will make it worse, and god knows what will they do next.

Curry, I've been trying to explain it to my dad and my brother today, and they just keep saying "Wait, what? Because ... a fan got shot?" Things are out of control and have been for ages; the problem is that it's all going to stay that way.

Wanted to say thank you for keeping us updated on the latest. As Spangly said..this has nothing to do with football anymore. I can't beleive it's escalated to this kind of violence. The Italian government have a beast of alarming proportions in their hands and I hope these events have shook them enough to do something..anything.

My prayers are with the innocent people in Rome who were just trying to live their lives this weekend.

ohh dio mio... The state of calcio these days -_-
When will people learn?
What has this solved? Absolutely nothing.

Well, it's hard to know in all honesty. They were crowds of mostly young men, mostly dressed in black and with their faces covered. A few wearing team scarves but mostly without any easily identifiable features at all.

So undoubtedly some were ultras - by which I mean either members of one of the many well-established ultra groups, or (much less commonly) individuals who consider themselves to have the "ultra mentality" but for whatever reason have no group identity. It's also possible - indeed fairly likely - that some were random hooligans who were there to express their hatred of the police. There are a lot of neo-fascist gangs who are up for a ruck with the authorities on any excuse.

My guess is that when an armed mob attacks you, you don't stop to ask them how they'd like to be described in tomorrow's newspapers.

Thanks, SP. (And I think most people here know that not all Ultras are violent, but the impression I've gotten from the Italian press is that the people involved in the violence are Ultras. Is that incorrect?)

I just drove past the Olimpico here in Rome half an hour ago - it looks like a war zone, upturned cars and bins, smashed glasses, road signs pulled up and used as weapons, armed riot police everywhere. Thank God they weren't so stupid as to try to play the game, the whole days' games should have been called off.

oh and btw not all ultras are violent. These people are just hooligans pure and simple.

Roma, the Eternal City, where civil rule works only until the plebs take to the streets. I really shouldn't be able to make relevant allusions in the year 2007 to the final days of the Roman Republic. Saturninus, anyone?

Bonnie, thanks for the answer. I can understand the hostility that Italians have for authority etc. but I always thought that ultra groups are essentially violent; perhaps I'm wrong.

Isn't the word "ultra" itself a reference to "ultraviolence" from A Clockwork Orange?

Yeah, knowingly running that risk would be, if not suicidal, then extremely idiotic. I just hope the marches tonight are relatively peaceful.

I've got to say if anything the Roma game was postponed due to the happenings in Bergamo and the eventual leaks of what really happened at that rest stop. It sounds as though the police were very much at fault, if not entirely at fault for his death, and the last thing the city of Rome needs is to find out that one of its citizens died at the hands of a cop. The repercussions during the game would be massive.

Thanks, Curry.

http://afp.google.com/article/...

That link there talks about some anti-police displays around stadios in Italy this morning. And some details about the shooting.

Mark, no, you're not going to "get your ass kicked" for wearing an Inter jersey around Italy. I was there for several months, people (especially tourists) all wear whichever jersey they choose to, and unless you're wearing the oppositions jersey to one teams home game (and not sitting in the away supporters section), most likely nothing will happen to you. Spreading rumours to the contrary really just intensifies the belief that all Italian calcio fans are animals and makes situations more tense.

This isn't simply a matter of "Ultras being violent", this is a deep-seated hatred that a lot of Italians have toward the Police and authority in general and this tragic event is just giving them an outlet for their hatred. I, like you Martha, hope that Lotito's urges ares heeded, but I really don't have much faith in that.

KIrby, hit me up: italy[at]theoffside[dot]com should work.

(Madness is right.)

god damn it! am never over sleeping again! jesus, i cant believe all this has happened. but this makes a lot of sense to me. i did get up at 9 to watch the inter match and nothing was on. bleh... madness!!!

btw martha, i have 2 funny screenshots from my fm game for you

Got it, thanks!

Link, Sofia?

roma game has been "postponed" dont know if that means its going to be played later today or another day

mark, yes you would probably get your ass kicked if you were walking around any part of italy (other than milan, and still the ac fans...) wearing an inter shirt ahah so a word of advice: dont do it

how bad is this kind of thing in Italy? Suppose I'm wearing an Inter jersey and wandering around Rome one day, would I be likely to get my ass kicked?

Don't worry madame we aren't polcicemen we are just gangsta...

lisa, thats true never thought of that...either way the gun should not be their first instinct especially if the fight was finished already

Well, if he had nothing to do with the struggles why he is presented as an ultra lazio fan in the whole world putting the confusion and the idea the fact he is a lazio fan had a link with his death. Why not presented him as a vegetarien, or a guy who knows a muslim, or an anti bush militant, or a guy who know a guy who loved Harry Potter ? Somethings sound very stupid in this affair.

Also problems at a basketball game in Milan, apparently, I'll add it in Lisa, thanks.

Sofia, warning shots in the air aren't such a great idea either-the bullet still lands someplace.

Martha, I've seen two different reports, one makes it sound like he was sitting in a car, one says he was in one of the two cars involved in the Lazio-Juve fight. Also, radio here is reporting there are/were also problems at some of the Serie C games.

they shouldnt have shot anything except a warning shot into the air. this is stupid! the police in italy seem to work towards the policy of "shoot now, ask questions later" its unfortunate that this sort of thing has to happen but maybe this will spark a change in the italian police

Sofia I don't think anyone's saying he was shot on purpose; the police fired stupidly from far away, it sounds like, and he was struck.

wait so he had nothing to do with the fights and he gets shot?? if thats the case the italian police are more corrupt than i thought...

I just put this in the post, but it's being reported on Italian TV that Sandri was just sitting in the back of a car at the rest stop where the fight was when he was shot -- anyone seen this in print/online anywhere? Nevermind, got it.

should be interesting to see what happens with the roma game...i hope they at least try to play it. im sure the fans at the olimpico will have their signs out and ready to bash the police.

Damn. I doubt they'll cancel the Roma game, though I would be more comfortable saying that if the game was in Sardinia. I'm sure plenty have traveled to Milan for the game, and the issue will be with the Juventus supporters, not Roma for most. Plus, I'd also expect security will be increased exponentially at the Olimpico.

oh yeah thats true i never thought of that. hopefully they can fix this police problem and GREAT NEWS!!! PARMA 2- JUVE 2

So far, yep. I'm waiting for them to cancel the Roma match since it's at home and surely any Lazio Ultras who didn't go their match will be gathering at the ground, but nothing's happened yet.

this is pretty intense...so its only the atalanta- milan game and the inter-lazio game that have been cancelled??

Arezzo Police Chief Vincenzo Giacobbe said the officer intervened in a scuffle between two groups of people he had not yet identified as soccer fans. "I express deep sorrow and sincere condolences to the family of the victim," Giacobbe said, describing the incident as "a tragic error."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap...

gazzetta has a link to the dean mans myspace, which is a tad morbid and very unclassy, but what did we expect

parma-juve = sad

ranieri will be giving them a nice talking to after the game i would imagine

Thierry, i too am a bit sus about just how innocent this guy was.

Hopefully we will learn more

parma would be winning by 5 if they had a decent striker

If he wasn't a violent fan, what on hell he did near an highway among a battle between Lazio Ultras and a group of Juve supporters ?
Each time a violent, coward, racist, fan finished his pitiable existense, he appeared like the nicest and the more unlucky guy in the universe.
When facist antisemit PSG fans hunted the jew(who was a PSG fan too finally) with the excuse he was a Tel Aviv fan and were stopped by a cop(that they wanted to kill too) and one died "accidentally"( after the agression of the cop) how a saint we discovered !! Jesus was an hooligan near this guy!
May be, this last one was a good guy, may be. But at least we could say that the facist and racist Lazio songs didn't disturb him a lot, that the fact to have among his friends violent ultras didn't disturb him any more( i can'y explicate why he was here otherwise.
Is it real the guy who call the song and lead the fans is called a Kapo ? What an ambivalent semantic...

k

bbc are making it sound a lot more sinister than reports from italy have suggested it was.

oh well, another journalist not bothered with the facts

http://www.myp2p.eu/

Now you can sofia =]

correction: i dont want to watch milan i want to watch the juve parma game but cant

as soon as i saw that guy with the glasses starting to heat stuff before the game, i knew it wasnt gonna be a good day. and i had to wake up early, 9am, just to watch the game, i usually record them but its not on tv...

now i need to go back to sleep, buono notte raggazzi :)

bbc isn't getting anything right on this story.
Even the postpone time is wrong.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport

Yep. Top story Martha.

Seriously, Ruby?! JESUS.

Well, looks like we'll have to wait sofia -_-
God I hate this crap.

im so pissed i wanted to watch my milan

The Arezzo Bishop is urging not to use violence against violence, and is telling people not to rebel and stage clashes.

if anyone has RAI international they are showing scenes of what is going on

"Referee Saccani has decided to postpone Atalanta-Milan with the new date yet to be decided."

http://www.acmilan.com/LM_Matc...

The BBC are running with the headline 'Italian Police Kill Football Fan'. That's not going to help any *sighs*

Milan site has officially confirmed cancellation

juve game seems to be the only sane one in all of italy...

there is some good football despite the crowd problems. Juve look lost. Fiorentina surely have to win with all the shots theyve had!!

Apparently people are or were setting off firebombs at the San Siro too... Wonderful. Just wonderful. You think people would learn? Yet it keeps happening.

Getting ugly everywhere is right... All the fans are chanting, at all the stadiums and police departments. Lazio supporters apparently went to Arezzo after hearing of the shooting, and are chanting "Assassini, Assassini" at the police.

Thanks everyone, keep it coming -- any links you have to news stories on the status of matches (surely the Roma match will be called off?) are much appreciated, too.

parma are playing out of their skin!!

Atalanta-Milan, Officially suspended.

i just hope this issue is resolved as soon as possible during the international break and we dont want see anymore of this happening, especially with the Milan derby coming up :)

another penalty against juve

More details are coming out from the cop who shot.

He says he shot twice from a long distance, and one of the bullets hit Sandri. My italian isn't quite fluent so I don't really understand the rest of what he said, but here it is
"E' in corso in procura ad Arezzo l'interrogatorio dell'agente della polizia stradale che ha sparato al tifoso della Lazio nell'autogrill Badia al Pino, in provincia di Arezzo. L'agente avrebbe una trentina di anni e diversi anni di esperienza in polizia. Da una prima ricostruzione sembra che l'agente fosse in auto con un collega nella corsia opposta a quella dove si trova l'autogrill. quando si è accorto della rissa, i poliziotti avrebbero fermato la macchina e attraversato l'autostrada. L'agente avrebbe sparato due colpi, da una lunga distanza, uno dei quali avrebbe colpito il tifoso della Lazio."

atalanta-milan is cancelled now

how is this the police's fault?

idiot comment of the day: "Federation President Giancarlo Abete insists the death of a Lazio supporter had nothing to do with football-related violence."

oh really Giancarlo? what does it have to do with then?

It's needed serious attention for years now.

its so disappointing that this is the relationship between supporter groups and the police in Italy.

Surely this needs some serious attention in the very near future

Fio-Ude tifosi are chanting too, against the government, the police and pay-tv. Turning into a terrible day for calcio. I'm going to go out on a limb and say even more shit's goin' down today, and almost all the matches will be canceled.

Now Milan ultras are throwing stones and bottles and marching on the San Siro. WONDERFUL -_-

Reggina and Genoa tifosi are chanting against the police now as well. As well as Siena and Livorno tifosi.
All the fans and Ultras are coming together and chanting against the police. Who knows where that will lead.

Thanks mele and Fetyani; Fetyani just saw that myself and added it to the post.

Atalanta-Milan,

Atalanta fans want to stop the game, they broke the glass barrier at the curva. Atalanta players calmed them down and now everyone is talking together the players, staff and officials to see if the game will continue or not...

It also sounds accurate that he was shot by police.

Apparently Sandri is actually dead.
"Gabbo non era un tifoso violento"
(Gabbo was not a violent fan)
So like you said, his death was accidental, and I doubt he had taken part in the attack on the Juve supporters. Sounds like a case of wrong place, wrong time.
All the articles I've read on La Gazzetta Dello Sport and La Reppublica etc etc are basically saying the same thing, and don't give much detail.
R.I.P. Gabriele Sandri.