The Morning After

By: Martha | November 12th, 2007

RIP
[Gabriele Sandri]

*This post is being updated; scroll down for the latest*

I’m exhausted just from thinking about what happened yesterday, and am torn between not wanting to talk about anything else and desperately wanting a return to normalcy, so I can talk about Adriano’s desperate desire to play for Mr. Burns at Manchester City.

But for better or for worse, as we saw yesterday, football does go on, so my plan is a roundup of new developments this morning then an attempt to get back to normal, if possible. Needless to say, I’ll keep obsessively refreshing the Italian news sites, and will update with any decisions/useless blanket actions the moment they go down. Sound good?

•Things were peaceful overnight, and apart from a lot of smashed windows at the CONI offices, damage to police stations and vehicles, a handful of arrest and a small number of injuries of varying severity (several policemen were struck by thrown rocks), the physical result of the riots in Rome are minimal. As people mentioned in the comments last night, it’s important that we recognize that the rioters — their number variously reported as between 200 and 1000, depending on what you read, but probably closer to the former — are thugs, pure and simple. Football may have been their excuse, but it had nothing to do with what they were doing; these were people out looking for trouble, and an excuse to have a pop at the police.

•Corriere della Sera managed to score an interview with the policeman whose shot killed Gabriele Sandri; he’s understandably devastated, and talked to the paper about the two shots he fired, and why he had his gun out. The first shot, he says, went into the air, and protocol dictates he should have holstered his gun after that. He didn’t, and the gun went off again while he was running, this time shooting in the direction of the crowd of people who either were or had been fighting. At the moment it’s thought the second shot was the one that killed Sandri; there’s a diagram here — based, I believe, on the police side of the story — of where he was in relation to the shooter; not surprisingly, it supports the policeman’s story that he was probably too far away to have aimed at the victim. Sandri’s family, meanwhile, are calling Gabriele’s death a murder, and there is by no means agreement over how he was killed, or what the situation was at the rest stop where the incident occurred. There is reportedly CCTV footage of what happened, but we’ll hear about that only though official mouthpieces; there will surely be those who say we’ll never find out exactly what happened, or who was at fault.

•Stories are coming to the surface in Italy that both FIGC chair Giancarlo Abete and CONI wanted to suspend all matches yesterday, but were overruled by national police chief Antonio Manganelli. Manganelli’s logic was twofold: First, he was concerned about what might happen if matches were canceled and fans were unleashed into the streets en masse; second, he thought suspending the matches would be both an acknowledgment of police guilt and an inherent declaration that Sandri’s death was football-related (ala that of Filippo Raciti), both things he desperately wanted to avoid. In fact, it’s suggested that the Lazio match was suspended not out of respect, but rather because several players already knew what had happened, and it would be difficult to persuade them to play because of their connections to Sandri. Maganelli, obviously, overruled the footballing authorities and ordered that the matches go ahead; the resulting events make it clear just how faulty his logic was. [Thanks to Spangly Princess, whose coverage of Sandri's death and subsequent events everyone should read, for the link to the story.]

•Atalanta have announced they will prosecute those responsible for the horrors in the Curva yesterday. Hopefully this isn’t just window-dressing until things blow over, and they actually will take action: Breaking the hold the Ultras have over calcio is going to take a whole lot more than just one-time legal action, but it would certainly be a welcome sign of seriousness about the issue.

•FIGC aren’t meeting until later today, but it’s expected by many that they will ban travel to away matches, something that’s less a solution to anything that happened yesterday than it is a way to cover up the fact that the authorities are completely incapable of dealing with the scope of the problem on their hands. The away fans didn’t make yesterday happen, but if they’re not traveling and not at matches, it’s one less thing for football and police to try to handle effectively.

•In a meeting today with the heads of CONI and FIGC, Genoa President Enrico Preziosi proposed a month-long stoppage of Serie A. He believes drastic action is required to “show the world of football its true nature,” and to get people to admit that “something isn’t working,” and isn’t against a stoppage as long as two or three months, if that’s what it will take to make people realize that it’s time for a change. (Added 1040am EST)

•The four people arrested last night in Rome will be prosecuted under terrorism laws, the first time the laws have been applied to this sort of offense. I know nothing about Italian law and can’t begin to interpret the significance of this, but apparently the decision was made based on specific actions the four are accused of taking during the riots. (Added 1050 EST)

•Eyewitness reports and the ongoing police investigation are leading to questions about the shooter’s (Luigi Spaccatorella) claim that his second shot was fired accidentally. Eyewitnesses claim they saw him hold the gun with two hands when it discharged for the second time, and even the police are now admitting that he may have intentionally been firing at the tire of the car in which Sandri was sitting, presumably because he thought a robbery had taken place and was trying to stop the perpetrators from getting away. As a result of these new developments, Arezzo police authorities are saying that, while Spaccatorella is set to face manslaughter charges, depending on the results of their investigation, the charge may eventually rise to one of murder. (Added 1120am EST)

•The National Observatory on Sports Events (AKA l’Osservatorio) has released a statement in response to yesterday’s events. Spangly Princess has generously translated the document, which mandates the following: 1)All grounds with a capacity over 7500 must have trained stewards in place by March or risk playing behind closed doors; 2)local police authorities have the right to postpone or suspend matches in the interest of public safety if any violent incidents take place, either inside or outside the ground; 3)Mass travel of “violent” fans is prohibited until the planned system of fan’s ID cards is put in place; this will be enforced on a case-by-case basis, through means such as a ban on group ticket sales or the closing of the away Curva. (Added 1230pm; clarified at 340pm EST)

•Rumors suggest that matches across the peninsula will be suspended next weekend, a measure which obviously will not affect Serie A, since the league is on a break for the upcoming internationals. (Added 125pm EST)

•The first arrest has been made ahead of Atalanta’s planned prosecution of those involved in the disorder that lead to the abandonment of their match against Milan yesterday: A 33-year-old resident of Bergamo has been taken into custody. (Added 125pm EST)

•It’s been confirmed that this weekend’s rounds of Serie B and C matches have been suspended. (Added 135pm EST)

•Palermo president Maurizo Zamparini has issues his usual, very un-politically correct statement, warning that any government that limits the movements of its citizens (in this case, the banning of away fans) invites observers to “talk about democracy but regime.” [Audio of his extensive press conference is here; thanks to PalermoSteven for the link.] (Added 155pm EST)

•The suspension of Serie B and C matches seems to be the extent of FIGC action, at this point; the possibility of a travel ban still exists but it has not been imposed. They also have formally requested of UEFA that the Azzurri be allowed to wear back armbands during the Scotland match. As of today, the intention is to resume Serie A matches on November 25, according to schedule. (Added 320pm EST)

•There have now been eight people arrested in Bergamo for their roles in the events that lead to the abandonment of the Atlanta-Milan match; police are reportedly using TV footage to identify offenders. (Added 330pm EST)





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    Displaying the most recent 25 comments from a total of 35 comments.
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  • Steven |  November 12th, 2007 at 9:05 am

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    This is not a short-sighted view on things, but i have only met very few Americans and Canadians who understand and have dealt with football violence. It’s just something that is typically European/Southern American. For some groups, football is like religion or nationality. If you try to break down their team, it’s like invading their country. Europe is different from America in living your nationality. The American states are all pretty much interchangeable, where Belgium, Holland and Germany for example are totally different countries. And especially in Italy. Italy isn’t even 150 years old, and the Unification of Italy was a big mistake. The small states and cities hated eachothers guts (economic rivalry, neighbouring cities, previous wars..) and suddenly they were united under one kingdom. This still reflects in football. Just look at the relationships between Palermo and Catania, Vicenza and Verona, Udinese and Triestina or Napoli and Avellino.

    Yesterday’s inferno was a case of ‘all against a greater enemy’, in this example: tifosi versus police, because of the disrespect for what happened. Hooliganism is a (dare i say ‘essential’?) part of football, and it has been here for years. We don’t just go to the game with a teamshirt and sit among the fans of the other teams like in American sports.

    And if you believe that England got rid of hooliganism…think again.

    Posted from Belgium Belgium

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  • Fetyani |  November 12th, 2007 at 9:40 am

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    look at this idiot now!!

    Genoa President Enrico Preziosi has called for a long break in the Serie A season after the weekend’s turmoil. “Two or three months off would help show the world of football it’s true nature.”

    he is right about banning away fans is a bad idea, but his idea is probably the worst.

    Posted from United States

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  • Martha |  November 12th, 2007 at 9:41 am

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    That’s in the post, Fetyani, keep scrolling! I’m trying to update things as they happen, more or less.

    Please do keep updating stuff here, everyone, I’m sure there’s a lot going on that I’m missing, or don’t understand.

    Posted from United States

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  • Martha |  November 12th, 2007 at 9:42 am

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    And no problem, tmc — I figure you guys are as concerned about this as I am, so there’s no reason not to join forces to get the latest info on what’s going on.

    Posted from United States

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  • Steven |  November 12th, 2007 at 10:26 am

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    Martha, Maurizio Zamparini just gave a press conference, saying that playing the Catania-Palermo derby behind closed doors would be another loss for Calcio, as this would mean that Catania and Palermo could not prove to be able to go to a match between the two without fighting.

    The sound can be found here: http://www.stadionews.it/video.asp?ID=1905

    Posted from Belgium Belgium

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  • Thierry |  November 12th, 2007 at 10:31 am

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    steven,
    “GS was shot because he was an ultra. It might be possible that he wasn’t killed on purpose, but the police WAS shooting at the ultras.”
    I think you take your dream for reality. what’s your proves? So you live in a world where policemen want to kill ultras, interesting point of view.
    “that Neo Nazi-shit”: Absolutely no shit here except the truth, most of Ultras movement were and are grangrened else create by neo-nazi movement. Read many books on the subject and you will understand.
    “the Atalanta-Ultras who went berserk yesterday, are extreme left-wing” your proves?
    “i have only met very few Americans and Canadians who understand and have dealt with football violence”
    Because you have so friends who totally understand and deal with it i presume ?
    “For some groups, football is like religion or nationality. If you try to break down their team, it’s like invading their country.”
    That is exactly the ideology of extreme right and neo nazi movement. The famous argue of “we are invaded” “our village, our tradition, our religion, our believes, our honor, our wife, our race, our team are on danger” Typically neo nazi argue.
    “The American states are all pretty much interchangeable, where Belgium, Holland and Germany for example are totally different countries. And especially in Italy.”
    I don’t think that american states are interchangeable (which means they would have a lack of identity.) Obviously, Belgium(principally the Flemish part), Holland, Germany, Italy, you could had all the eastern european countries, are countries where the past with the nazism and the facism are often overshadowed, hidden by some.
    The historical rivalries between regions, Cities, contries, past or new created are nothing else than neo nazi strategy. Like the fight ideological or physical against all which could represent Civilisation(policcemen, institutions,..) and Universalism(the others, the others teams,…). I suggest you to read Civilization and Its Discontents by Freud.
    “Europe is different from America in living your nationality” I think may be the major difference is that USA never exterminated several millions of jews in an hysterical identity conflict.

    Posted from United States

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  • Martha |  November 12th, 2007 at 10:38 am

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    Thierry, while it’s certainly true that some Ultra groups have far right and even neo-Nazi connections, to apply that generalization to all Ultra groups is a mistake, and does them a great disservice. Like you, I’ve read a lot on the subject (as, I’m sure, has Steven), and still disagree with the broad brush with which you’re painting the organized supporters of Italian football (which actually is all “Ultra” really means).

    This thread is for discussion, but it’s important to keep it respectful. Everyone, please keep that in mind so I don’t have to close the comments and deny all of us a place to discuss our thoughts and share information.

    Posted from United States

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  • Mark |  November 12th, 2007 at 10:43 am

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    Thanks for the points Steven, I’m really just trying to get a grasp of what’s going on.

    I’m sure there’s still alot of hooliganism in English football, it just seems like at the games themselves and around the events, there is a general sense of safety. Someone would feel much better about taking their children to an English football match rather than an Italian one, or at least that’s what it seems like to me.

    Posted from United States United States

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  • Steven |  November 12th, 2007 at 10:45 am

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    According to you, every single European is a neo-nazi, and so is everyone who is violent. I’ve been researching Hooliganism for years, so I think I know what’s the history behind a lot of them.

    About the Atalanta-ultras: my ‘proves’ are the Atalanta-press release, the comments from the Ultras AND Gazzetta Dello Sport.

    On Americans and hooliganism: leave out the sarcasm, it doesn’t suit you. and yes, hanging around and living with people who are part of Ultra-groups, i have.

    On all the other bullshit: yeah, that’s right…EVERY SINGLE European country used to have a fascist leader or government. And EVERY SINGLE European country took part in the killing of the jews.

    Conclusion: hooliganism is related to the Nazis, and every European is a Fascist. Get your head out of your ass.

    Posted from Belgium Belgium

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  • Mark |  November 12th, 2007 at 10:49 am

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    yipes! It’s getting ugly in here …

    Anyway, Thierry, I don’t think all ultra groups are neo-nazi although I guess some are. And some are on the exact opposite of the spectrum (left-wing extremist groups) I believe Livorno has that type of following. In any case, I don’t think it helps bringing up the holocaust …

    Posted from United States United States

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  • Lisa |  November 12th, 2007 at 11:23 am

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    Whoa, Steven. Deep breaths, dude. Don’t go off the deep end because someone is showcasing their ignorance.

    Thierry, to suggest that the regional rivalries in Italy or Europe are nothing more than a neo-Nazi strategy is the most asinine thing I’ve heard today. It’s all very well to talk about how we’re all the same, but you ignore historical context at your peril.

    Posted from Italy Italy

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  • Angharad |  November 12th, 2007 at 11:30 am

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    … Godwin’s Law strikes again.

    In other news, Martha dearest, Italians aren’t the only ones to have Ultràs. The Bundesliga certainly does, although the killing people part has been a bit toned down recently. I would offer an explanation of this except I’m sure someone would tell me I was being insulting (to Germans or Italians, or possibly both).

    Posted from United States United States

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  • Martha |  November 12th, 2007 at 11:38 am

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    Thanks, Angharad — your saying that reminds me that there are fan groups in Eastern Europe, too, that very proudly call themselves “Ultras.” Definitely NOT all Italian, you’re right. (Those those are the ones we’re talking about here.)

    Posted from United States

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  • Brian P |  November 12th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

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    I’ve posted this on Spangly Princess as well, but I want to say thanks to Marth for what has been really excellent coverage of this nightmarish situation–the work you’ve done in keeping the innumerable strands of this story collected in one place has been exemplary and has shown the value of blogs in a crisis. I just wanted to let you know that I’ve linked to your coverage in my own discussion at The Run of Play, in a post on why we find football violence so fascinating. You can see my post here:

    http://www.runofplay.com/2007/11/football-violence-in-italy-and.html

    Thanks again for your terrific work.

    Posted from United States

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  • mele419 |  November 12th, 2007 at 1:37 pm

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    So, will Atalanta-Milan play there game some time? Or is it completely abandoned?

    Posted from United States United States

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  • Martha |  November 12th, 2007 at 1:49 pm

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    Thanks a lot Brian, both for the link and your kind words; just added you blog to my feeds, I’m sorry I’d not seen it until now.

    mele, it’s my assumption that, just like the two suspended ones, the abandoned match will be played. As Chris pointed out in a recent post, the problem with scheduling them is the return of the Coppa Italia, European matches, and the winter break — Inter, for example, already have six matches in December. So it’s likely to be a while before the three matches are played.

    Posted from United States

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  • sofia |  November 12th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

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    this is really sad and a disgrace on the italian poilce force and on italian soccer. the fans need to realize that there is a fine line between passionate and psycho and that they crossed that line a long time ago.

    RIP GABRIELE… always missed but never forgotten

    Posted from Canada Canada

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  • mele419 |  November 12th, 2007 at 3:19 pm

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    Sofia, you’ve said it well.

    And Martha, thanks, you’ve done a great job keeping us all up to date on everything. Dunno what I’d do without your wonderful blogging!

    Time to wait it out, see how everything plays out, and go from there…

    Posted from United States United States

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  • Thierry |  November 12th, 2007 at 4:11 pm

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    What are we talking about ? Are we talking about good fathers with their families who love football? Or are we talking about the grow of violence in football in Europe?
    For me there is no doubt, the grow of this violence has links with the grow of extreme right ideas in Europe.
    Sure depite my ignorance, i know the regional rivalries especially in Italy, but i know too how they were and are exacerbated and used by extreme right. Don’t you think weird that you could find nowadays the same racist and xenophobic slogan towards south italians in the mouth of some ultras of north clubs than those of Lega Nord per l’indipendenza della Padania. Don’t you find weird the way in numerous european stadiums an unknown serbian general(neo nazi and war criminal) had been celebrated.

    Steven,
    First i was deeply shocked by the way you try to trivialized (It’s just something that is typically European(…)” you americans can’t understand) such demonstrations of violence.
    Two, i think you didn’t understand what i mean. “(..)have a fascist leader or government.” In fact most of europeans had choosen a facist leader who incarnated their taste for violence, and their hatred…It wasn’t like if it was an accident, or a malediction, most of the time, it was a choice, made by them.And the holocaust wasn’t a secret accident of History, but a deliberate choice, and if the antisemits weren’t so numerous it couldn’t be possible. My point could appear bullshit to you but it’ s very clear. In psychology like in history when some problems are denied, they finish by reappear again, in the same or a different form. Have you ever asked yourself why and how europeans were able to this violence in the ideas and in the acts ?
    Beyond me, if you can with depth answer to this question you will able to understand the grow of violence in Europe nowadays.
    Deep Identity crisis beyond me. Most of people don’t want to study history especially the dark moments but prefer to consider its like a bad memory you must forget. The common point with Europe during 30’s and the present Europe, in my opinion is this deep identity crisis. Young men organize little wars (symbolic or real) between their countries, their regions, their cities, their villages, their areas, their clubs, because they don’t know who or what they are. Italy bought itself a cheap illusion with Berlusconi, like France did with Sarkozy,.. but i m afraid it won’t be sufficient. Aa band of guys who are ready to hunt another one because “he ’s different” sorry if it remind me of dark things. This was my a part of my point.
    Martha, certainly and fortunatly all ultras aren’t Neo nazi, facist, whatever we name them, and if i admit you can be an ultra and a cool personn, there are some little things in the ultra movement which disturb me. First what make a difference betwenn an ultra band and a fan who is not an ultra. Correct me if i m wrong but there is in the ultra move the idea “to give all for the club”, “to give more than the common fan(fan already come from fanatic). And as i saw many time there is the idea to make a kind of family, with the idea of exclusion of all weren’t a part of his family. and of course to definitate an identity many ultras will tell you there are others(group of ultras, other clubs) they can’t stand. I think these ideas could be dangerous in the mind of young idle men.

    Posted from United States

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  • Steve Amoia |  November 12th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

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    Martha:

    Thank you for the excellent work on this tragic event.

    Tanti auguri,

    Steve Amoia

    Posted from United States United States

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  • Steven |  November 13th, 2007 at 12:12 am

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    Thierry: “In fact most of europeans had choosen a facist leader who incarnated their taste for violence, and their hatred”

    You can’t possibly mean something like this? I’ve lived in Europe all my life, and this is complete and utter bullshit. Belgium, Holland, Norway, England…all monarchies with a leftist touch for the past 60-70 years. France had left-wing presidents up to Chirac, Sweden: left wing. If you want to believe we’re all neo-nazis, fine by me. Now stop the bullshit and concentrate on football.

    Posted from Belgium Belgium

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  • Lisa |  November 13th, 2007 at 12:48 am

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    Thierry, stop dragging the Holocaust into it. It’s needlessly incendiary in a discussion of football violence.(Also, malediction does not mean what you think it means.)

    But either way, you’re misreading Steven’s argument. He didn’t trivialize anything. He said that the issue of football violence is not something easy for Americans to understand because there is no analogue for it in American sporting culture. If you have an example to disprove that statement, I’d love to hear it.

    And out of curiosity, where are you from?

    Posted from Italy Italy

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  • Steven |  November 13th, 2007 at 2:09 am

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    Thank you Lisa. That was exactly what i meant.

    Posted from Belgium Belgium

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  • Martha |  November 13th, 2007 at 5:07 am

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    Steve — you’re very welcome, I’m glad I was able to help a little bit.

    Posted from United States

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  • Thierry |  November 15th, 2007 at 2:11 pm

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    First, i beg you pardon if my purpose shocked you, it wasn’t my goal, i was just frightened and angry by the increase of violence based on racism or imaginary territoriality, we see in Europe.
    Lisa, the holocaust was just the result of all a numerous series of europeans violences like this that people had usually forgotten. The analogue for it in USA, if we consider the history of violence in Usa with the apperance of an exterior ennemy(Indians,…,Irak) who menace(help) the cohesion, plus a strong segregation(to keep the ennemy in the exterior borders) who created strong imaginary frontrier would be probably the phenomenon of gang, in my opinion(same territorial mode). In Europe the ennemy in this process of violence is interior or secret. For example the antisemitism in Poland is still very strong despite the few number of jews in it nowadays(65 000).
    Steven, “You can’t possibly mean something like this?”, i talked about Europe during the 30’s, of course.(PS Chirac was clearly in the right i promise you, lol)

    Posted from United States

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