Comments on: Champions League: Great, More Violence

By: Lisa

Lisa — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 11:27:42 +0000

RT, you’re welcome. :)
We definitely agree that Italy need to improve, for the sake of the sport and the fans. I hope Italy succeed in their Euro 2012 bid, but I’m rather pessimistic on that score at the moment-the Rome incident coming so soon after Catania can’t help.

By: Martha

Martha — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 09:20:04 +0000

Just pulled that out of my feeds as you were posting about it, roswitha — going to check it out now.

By: roswitha

roswitha — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:55:38 +0000

Great blog in the Guardian today about this. The comments are thoughtful and very enlightening, and it's difficult not to acknowledge the criticism levelled at the English media and at Manchester United for representing the situation in an alarmist fashion.

By: RT

RT — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 02:48:31 +0000

Lisa, I believe we actually agree on most issues, and there is no doubt that calcio has much that can and should be improved. Perhaps Italy really needs to succeed in their Euro 2012 bid (and not blow the opportunity should it arise).

And thanks for the html tip! I was practically heartbroken (kidding) when it didn’t come out right, though thankfully someone has since edited it.

By: Sofia

Sofia — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 01:31:19 +0000

ok so were they actually stabbed or just attacked? i never realised how complicated things could get even written in english, i can only imagine Google Translate on this one….

By: Lisa

Lisa — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:21:04 +0000

Satine, I think when they said good condition, they were using hospital terminology- good/serious/critical condition. Good condition doesn’t necessarily mean what you and I would usually consider good.

RT, for links use HTML, not the [url] format that message boards tend to use. link text (I hope that shows up correctly, there’s no preview, so I can’t tell if I’m using the right codes for . Fingers crossed!)

By: Lisa

Lisa — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:58:56 +0000

RT, I don’t doubt that there are some troublemakers in the
ManUtd fans. There are bound to be a few in any group. And the British authorities try to cut down on that as much as possible by preventing known hooligans from travelling to away matches.

But regardless of that, Roma have had issues with violence against visiting fans from many teams over many years. At some point they have to step up and do something about their problem without worrying about who’s on the receiving end this time and pointing the finger at them. And if you’ll look at what I said above, I didn’t imply that all or even most Roma fans were the problem-I specifically said the violent subset of the Ultras.

About the security/policing, be honest, can you imagine riot police laying into a crowd indiscriminately in an American stadium? I’ve been to a good number of sports events in Boston, NYC, and Philly over the years. The crowds there can be rowdy and rude, but they don’t require riot police at games-because situations are handled by security and normal police long before things get that out of hand. If Roma games require riot police, that’s a sign that there is something severely wrong.

ManUtd supporters are over the top to demand a ban on all Italian clubs, particularly as it’s hardly as if Italy is alone in having a problem with football-related violence. But they’re certainly correct that if the current state of things continues, it’s only a matter of time before someone else gets killed.

By: Satine

Satine — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:57:27 +0000

Call me crazy, Lisa, but when the Guardian said that the injured fans weren’t in serious condition I just assumed that they can’t mean actual knife wounds. I’ve never heard of fans being threatened or injured with a knife in Germany and it just seemed so highly unlikely.

By: RT

RT — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:40:23 +0000

And my apologies, as my link to the Man Utd page didn’t come out right. I could use a lesson on how to insert one properly (I’m looking at you Lisa!)…

By: RT

RT — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:37:46 +0000

Lisa, my understanding with the Lille incident is that UEFA was concerned with what they called ‘…improper conduct of their fans at the game, which included the setting-off of fireworks and disturbances at the entrance to the stadium.’ While I don’t doubt the fears of overcrowding, this statement leads me to suppose there was more than mere ‘panic’.

It’s not my intention to suggest that Man Utd or English fans are all delinquents, but I don’t think it is fair to automatically suggest that the Roma fans were more to blame or that the police simply decided to beat up on Man Utd fans, whom were innocent bystanders or perfect gentlemen (which is the gist I get when reading the English accounts).

I’m seeing now that there were further incidents with the Tottenham Hotspur trip to Sevilla. Just more coincidence? More ‘police overreaction’ and ‘misunderstanding’? Seriously, should Italian teams really be banned,as the Man Utd writer of this site suggests? Or should English fans be prevented from travelling? I think the latter question is at least as fair to ask as the former, though I’d prefer neither, along with fans just freaking behaving already and Italy finally taking a belated step forward in terms of the infrastructure of its sport.