Comments on: Thoughts on the State of Calcio http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html News from the Italian Serie A Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:30:56 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Italian Soccer at a Standstill | Italy Travel Guide http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-31894 Italian Soccer at a Standstill | Italy Travel Guide Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:06:52 +0000 http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-31894 [...] Thoughts on the State of Calcio [...] [...] Thoughts on the State of Calcio [...]

]]> By: RomaPete http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3988 RomaPete Tue, 06 Feb 2007 03:36:30 +0000 http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3988 Muddia Dome, sorry for besmirching the good name of Cubs fans (my late grandfather was one, and he actually saw Tinker to Evers to Chance as a young boy). When I think Chicago, I just automatically think "Cubs". To follow up Paolo's point, I was reading somewhere (I think one of the Manchester Guardian's excellent blogs) concerning all the trouble in Argentina in the fall (quite a lot of it), and there too apparently the ultras control their sections of the stadiums. Absolutely inconceivable to me that a business organization with vast sums of money at stake would tolerate this. Is it fear, is it greed, is it merely cynical resignation that "nothing can be done"? It is Italy, after all. Perhaps this isn't all that much different from the glory days of the Circus Maximus. Muddia Dome, sorry for besmirching the good name of Cubs fans (my late grandfather was one, and he actually saw Tinker to Evers to Chance as a young boy). When I think Chicago, I just automatically think “Cubs”.
To follow up Paolo’s point, I was reading somewhere (I think one of the Manchester Guardian’s excellent blogs) concerning all the trouble in Argentina in the fall (quite a lot of it), and there too apparently the ultras control their sections of the stadiums. Absolutely inconceivable to me that a business organization with vast sums of money at stake would tolerate this. Is it fear, is it greed, is it merely cynical resignation that “nothing can be done”? It is Italy, after all. Perhaps this isn’t all that much different from the glory days of the Circus Maximus.

]]> By: Muddia Dome http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3955 Muddia Dome Mon, 05 Feb 2007 22:39:31 +0000 http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3955 Good points Paolo. RomaPete, you need to brush up. Though Cub fans are drunken morons (trust me, I'm one of them) it was a couple of toothless hillbillies on the southside who took out 65 yr old KC Royals first base coach Tom Gamboa. But you are right, it is a different atmosphere in U.S. fandom. Good points Paolo. RomaPete, you need to brush up. Though Cub fans are drunken morons (trust me, I’m one of them) it was a couple of toothless hillbillies on the southside who took out 65 yr old KC Royals first base coach Tom Gamboa. But you are right, it is a different atmosphere in U.S. fandom.

]]> By: Paolo http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3949 Paolo Mon, 05 Feb 2007 22:02:01 +0000 http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3949 Ahh, see they knew I was Interista and let me be. It's a given don't mess with the Ultras, they are too sophisticated, organized and crazy. People wonder how they get the stuff in that they do? They control the entrances to their sections of the Stadiums. To compare our sporting venues to ones there ......... Here, for the most part, you go to a sporting event and expect to be entertained by cheerleaders, contests, marketing ploys, mascots, a few beers and some good old fashioned jawing at opposing fans. Take it too far and you're out. You don't have to worry about being hit with a rocket or having a scooter thrown at, you don't have to fear violence, or worry about the cops using tear gas. As a player you don't have to worry about being beat up by fans, as coaches you make the decisions based on whats best for the team, not what Ultras tell you to do. I was in Rome standing infront of the train station when out of nowhere upwards of 20 cop cars surrounded the piazza infront of the station, the swat team arrived and surrounded the piazza. 3 mins later 4 busses packed with fans from Palermo pulled in. They had just left the Olimpico where Palermo had played Lazio. They all gathered and began singing and chanting all while being escorted on the train by the swat team. It was nuts. Can you imagine a group of Yankees fans being escorted around Boston at gun point by a swat team to ensure there was no violence? It would be considered absurd. Anyhow, they have to do something to keep these people under control. Lippi made a good point ( http://www.socceritalia.net/applications/NewsManager/inc_newsmanager.asp?ItemID=5014&rcid=55&pcid=29&cid=55 ), If you are willing to fork over millions for players, the clubs should do be just as willing to spend $$ on security for other fans and players. Ahh, see they knew I was Interista and let me be.

It’s a given don’t mess with the Ultras, they are too sophisticated, organized and crazy. People wonder how they get the stuff in that they do? They control the entrances to their sections of the Stadiums. To compare our sporting venues to ones there ……… Here, for the most part, you go to a sporting event and expect to be entertained by cheerleaders, contests, marketing ploys, mascots, a few beers and some good old fashioned jawing at opposing fans. Take it too far and you’re out. You don’t have to worry about being hit with a rocket or having a scooter thrown at, you don’t have to fear violence, or worry about the cops using tear gas. As a player you don’t have to worry about being beat up by fans, as coaches you make the decisions based on whats best for the team, not what Ultras tell you to do. I was in Rome standing infront of the train station when out of nowhere upwards of 20 cop cars surrounded the piazza infront of the station, the swat team arrived and surrounded the piazza. 3 mins later 4 busses packed with fans from Palermo pulled in. They had just left the Olimpico where Palermo had played Lazio. They all gathered and began singing and chanting all while being escorted on the train by the swat team. It was nuts. Can you imagine a group of Yankees fans being escorted around Boston at gun point by a swat team to ensure there was no violence? It would be considered absurd. Anyhow, they have to do something to keep these people under control. Lippi made a good point ( http://www.socceritalia.net/applications/NewsManager/inc_newsmanager.asp?ItemID=5014&rcid=55&pcid=29&cid=55 ), If you are willing to fork over millions for players, the clubs should do be just as willing to spend $$ on security for other fans and players.

]]> By: RomaPete http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3939 RomaPete Mon, 05 Feb 2007 20:45:25 +0000 http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3939 Maybe they knew my romanista tendencies and so that's why they gave me such thorough treatment. I was with my sister who's milanista, and she came through with matches so at least that part worked out OK. Wouldn't it be ironic if they banned smoking but still allowed the pyrotechnics? Actually, as for the US, what you say is not quite true. There was an incident about 2 years ago when two drunken fans charged out on to the field and inexplicably tackled the first base coach at a Cubs game. Very foolish too, since they were immediately pounced on by all the players and got a pretty good beating and finally some jail time. I think they were more drunk and stupid than anything else. There used to be more trouble years ago, particularly back in the 60s and 70s, but the leagues and the teams decided to really crack down, and perhaps most importantly, the vast majority of the fans agree and support those efforts wholeheartedly. When he was young, I wanted to be able to take my son to a ball game without having to fear for his safety. Ultimately it's up to the fans to say what they will, and will not, tolerate from fellow fans. The racist chanting apparently so common to European football would absolutely not be tolerated here. Partly though I would guess that's because our sports audiences are much more integrated than European audiences. Here if you start yelling some racist rubbish, there's a pretty good chance that someone near you belongs to the group you are abusing, and might take direct and personal exception. But the ultras also are organized, which our young rowdies generally are not, and that adds an extra layer of menace. The equivalent here would be the Hells Angels or something like that. You'll think twice about getting on their bad side. Maybe they knew my romanista tendencies and so that’s why they gave me such thorough treatment. I was with my sister who’s milanista, and she came through with matches so at least that part worked out OK. Wouldn’t it be ironic if they banned smoking but still allowed the pyrotechnics?
Actually, as for the US, what you say is not quite true. There was an incident about 2 years ago when two drunken fans charged out on to the field and inexplicably tackled the first base coach at a Cubs game. Very foolish too, since they were immediately pounced on by all the players and got a pretty good beating and finally some jail time. I think they were more drunk and stupid than anything else. There used to be more trouble years ago, particularly back in the 60s and 70s, but the leagues and the teams decided to really crack down, and perhaps most importantly, the vast majority of the fans agree and support those efforts wholeheartedly. When he was young, I wanted to be able to take my son to a ball game without having to fear for his safety. Ultimately it’s up to the fans to say what they will, and will not, tolerate from fellow fans. The racist chanting apparently so common to European football would absolutely not be tolerated here. Partly though I would guess that’s because our sports audiences are much more integrated than European audiences. Here if you start yelling some racist rubbish, there’s a pretty good chance that someone near you belongs to the group you are abusing, and might take direct and personal exception.
But the ultras also are organized, which our young rowdies generally are not, and that adds an extra layer of menace. The equivalent here would be the Hells Angels or something like that. You’ll think twice about getting on their bad side.

]]> By: Paolo http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3914 Paolo Mon, 05 Feb 2007 17:38:19 +0000 http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3914 Interesting. When I was at the San Siro in September they did nothing as far as searching us. I was allowed to bring my lighter in, I was even allowed to smoke in my seat. It seems that the safety measures are inconsistent. I'm sure it all depends on who is playing who. Its certain groups of ultras that are crazy. They are have their so called "poltical" views. They will even fight eachother. Teams have to do more to protect the players from fans. Think of any professional sports team in Canada or the USA. The players and team personnel are impossible to get to. I don't know what they are doing worng over there. Interesting. When I was at the San Siro in September they did nothing as far as searching us. I was allowed to bring my lighter in, I was even allowed to smoke in my seat. It seems that the safety measures are inconsistent. I’m sure it all depends on who is playing who. Its certain groups of ultras that are crazy. They are have their so called “poltical” views. They will even fight eachother. Teams have to do more to protect the players from fans. Think of any professional sports team in Canada or the USA. The players and team personnel are impossible to get to. I don’t know what they are doing worng over there.

]]> By: RomaPete http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3908 RomaPete Mon, 05 Feb 2007 16:46:12 +0000 http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3908 Back in March I went to a game at San Siro (Milan - Fiorentina), and because I had a seat in the tribuna I was practically strip searched, and, irony of ironies, my cigarette lighter was confiscated because (gasp!) we don't want people lighting in things in the stands do we? It gave me a sort of "what's wrong with this picture?" moment until I realized the ultimate truth: the clubs are AFRAID of the ultras, physically, literally, afraid of them. Club administrators are afraid of being physically attacked by them if they anger them in any way. They may have reason, if we recall the way Inter players were set upon by angry ultras last spring. You can try to adopt measures like the UK did to cope with this situation, but you'll also have to figure out what do to about some thousands of sociopathic lunatics outside the stadiums. Back in March I went to a game at San Siro (Milan – Fiorentina), and because I had a seat in the tribuna I was practically strip searched, and, irony of ironies, my cigarette lighter was confiscated because (gasp!) we don’t want people lighting in things in the stands do we? It gave me a sort of “what’s wrong with this picture?” moment until I realized the ultimate truth: the clubs are AFRAID of the ultras, physically, literally, afraid of them. Club administrators are afraid of being physically attacked by them if they anger them in any way. They may have reason, if we recall the way Inter players were set upon by angry ultras last spring. You can try to adopt measures like the UK did to cope with this situation, but you’ll also have to figure out what do to about some thousands of sociopathic lunatics outside the stadiums.

]]> By: shelah http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3869 shelah Mon, 05 Feb 2007 05:42:17 +0000 http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3869 true, martha. it is unlikely that they will cancel the rest of the season. it's just sad to think that there have been efforts to curtail these situations yet were discarded for some reason. perhaps these regulations need more teeth and not just compulsive action from the government and football. true, martha. it is unlikely that they will cancel the rest of the season. it’s just sad to think that there have been efforts to curtail these situations yet were discarded for some reason. perhaps these regulations need more teeth and not just compulsive action from the government and football.

]]> By: Martha http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3810 Martha Sun, 04 Feb 2007 16:40:45 +0000 http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3810 Muddia, canceling the rest of the season would be an astonishing step. It would cost the clubs huge amounts of money, not to mention third party interests like television, ticket vendors, and those who sell everything from merchandise to food on game days, and would lead to an almost unimaginable uproar. For those reasons, I think it's incredibly unlikely. That said, if it happened it would send a message, once and for all, that things are changing, forcing cynics like myself to look at the sport with a new perspective and respect. Muddia, canceling the rest of the season would be an astonishing step. It would cost the clubs huge amounts of money, not to mention third party interests like television, ticket vendors, and those who sell everything from merchandise to food on game days, and would lead to an almost unimaginable uproar. For those reasons, I think it’s incredibly unlikely.

That said, if it happened it would send a message, once and for all, that things are changing, forcing cynics like myself to look at the sport with a new perspective and respect.

]]> By: Muddia Beduddia http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3806 Muddia Beduddia Sun, 04 Feb 2007 16:07:09 +0000 http://italy.theoffside.com/serie-a/thoughts-on-the-state-of-calcio.html#comment-3806 Good for Peruzzi. There is a great deal of blame to be shared and he is accounting for it. I agree with you Martha, that it is difficult to say what exactly needs be done. Clearly, Catania's season should be over and maybe several seasons. I certainly would not think it too much to suspend the rest of the season, with no champion crowned at all, including European play. To go from the euphoria of the World Cup to this, is truly unacceptable. Good for Peruzzi. There is a great deal of blame to be shared and he is accounting for it. I agree with you Martha, that it is difficult to say what exactly needs be done. Clearly, Catania’s season should be over and maybe several seasons. I certainly would not think it too much to suspend the rest of the season, with no champion crowned at all, including European play.

To go from the euphoria of the World Cup to this, is truly unacceptable.

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